Target Accounts, Intent Signals & Marketing Alignment with Jaime Ruhl
Download MP3Hi. I'm Warren Zena, founder and CEO of the CRO Collective, and welcome to the CRO spotlight podcast. This show is focused exclusively on the success of chief revenue officers. Each week, we have an open frank and free form conversation with top experts in the revenue space about the CRO role and its critical impact on BDD businesses. This podcast is the place to be for CROs, sales and marketing leaders who aspire to become CROs, and founders who are looking to appoint a CRO or wanna support their CRO to succeed.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. Now let's go mix it up. Hello. Welcome to this episode of the CRO spotlight podcast. This is Warren Zena, the founder of the CRO Collective, and I'm excited today.
Speaker 1:We have a great guest, Jamie Rule. She's the chief revenue officer of Emergent. It's a technology consulting company. And Jamie, it's great. We had a great conversation.
Speaker 1:They they they I'm getting a lot more of this. I'm actually here happy to say people are asking me if they can be on the show and I don't say yes to everybody but you know, what happens is sometimes I talk to people like, yeah, you, this would be great. So, Jamie's here and we have a great conversation we had and and and I want you to listen to it because we get in in the weeds a lot about what it means to be a new CRO and and how to get that ball rolling and all the challenges that go with, especially when you're not in a SaaS business, when you're more of a consulting business. So if you first don't mind, tell the audience about you. What do you do?
Speaker 1:Where do you work? How'd you get there? A little bit more about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course. Thank you again for having me on. Yeah, Jamie Rule. I am based in Dallas, Texas. So my current role is I'm the Chief Revenue Officer with Emergent.
Speaker 2:I was previously the VP of North America Global Sales for them and I've been with them for a little bit over a year. I've been in the sales industry and a technology services space for over fifteen years. I've been in sales for about twenty years, so kind of fell into that naturally, I would say, or by default. So early on, I've always I played sports growing up. I was always in customer service roles even in college and coming out of college, I studied public relations and psychology.
Speaker 2:So I always had an interest in talking to people, understanding their stories, learning a little bit more about them, what makes them motivated, what makes them tick. And I wanted to get a job back in Dallas where my family was based, and I ended up in the sales role and never really looked back. So that's how I ended up in sales. And I've grown throughout the years working for, I would say, small organizations, very large corporations. I've worked for startups in the past, worn multiple hats.
Speaker 2:I think that's what's really helped me grow as an individual and look at things a little bit differently as a sales professional is by kind of diving deeper into areas that I normally wouldn't have exposure to if I was just a individual contributor at a large corporation. So I started out by doing recruiting actually for technology consultants back in 2010, and then moved on to work for a technology organization that focused on SMB market, specifically with their own private cloud. So I learned a lot, that's why I really learned a lot about the technology world, the cloud, everything digital. And then I built their sales department from the ground up, moved on to another organization that also did the same thing, built their sales department from the ground up and was an individual contributor, also a leader. And then from there, I went to work for some very large corporations, playing some more strategic roles in large deal construction, multi million dollar deals, very complex organizations.
Speaker 2:And so that gave me another insight into how business and how companies and operations work. Then from there, I was looking for what I would call a home, somewhere that you can kind of hone in on your skills and really make a difference. And for me, that's where, you know, Emergent came into play. So it kind of was a culmination of being a player coach role and also being able to, I think, make an impact, in the industry. So Emergent's differentiator, what they offer to the market is really what resonated.
Speaker 2:And now I'm here, and I've grown since I've been here.
Speaker 1:So thank you. Great. So it sounds like, obviously, you're you you grew up in this role through sales. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you're you came over. Now when you had emerging when they walk me through this process. It's always interesting to my listeners is how did the company was this the first CRO they ever had?
Speaker 2:I believe so. They've had a lot of different roles in the past. So Emergent's been in business for sixteen years, but they've grown very organically, they're global, right? So they have footprints in Europe. North America was a little bit of a, I would say, emerging market.
Speaker 2:Like we've had some very large customers, but haven't had a steady state of a leader there. So I don't believe that they've had a CRO before in that capacity. So this is a different role for them. But when I came on, it was leading the North America team. And so that's how it kind of grew into understanding a little bit more about the markets, how we operate.
Speaker 2:And there was obviously some things that we wanted to do differently, I think, in how we run North America, how we work as a We're at a unique time, I think in our career when I came in, we were celebrating fifteen years. We've seen a lot of seasons of growth and also some things that we've been to be in business for fifteen, sixteen years is pretty impressive. And so we were going through a lot of changes and it was time for them to really focus on growth from a strategic perspective. So I think that's where my role really came into play, and it was just the right timing to really have that role in place.
Speaker 1:Got it. And when they thought of a CRO and they originally originally looked at the role itself, is is your remit grander than just sales focused? Is it, like, the entire revenue operation? Or how would you describe the way in which your role is being operationalized?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's a great question. I I I would say it's ever evolving. Right? I think that's part of the excitement sometimes with being in this role with a large global company, but still small in the sense that it's it's private, and we have that big feel with the small aspect.
Speaker 2:But yes, coming in, it is very sales focused, but it is also very focused on marketing and also go to market. We do have a CFO who's also our COO and handles a lot of the revenue, so I work very closely with her. So I would say, at the end of the day, Chief Revenue Officer, I'm gonna be responsible for numbers, right? But it is grander than that in the sense that it's really starting with the sales, leading the sales team, and also how we go to market, how we position ourselves in the market, and also aligning very closely with marketing is one of the big mandates that I've had.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. Yeah. So I mean, I asked the question mainly because this sort of sits at the kind of crossroad of where it is that my own businesses came from, which is this idea that the CRO role really is a revenue leader, right? What I don't know. Again, I didn't say you've been around for fifteen years, but if you don't mind me asking, this is more question pertaining to the complexity of your business.
Speaker 1:How how big is the company? Like, what's the general revenues? You don't have to give me the exact numbers, but a range.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we we're over five hundred five hundred to a thousand employees roughly operate in 15 different countries. We work with, I would say, some of the top like Fortune 10, Fortune 500 companies. From a revenue perspective, I'm not sure the exact number, but we're definitely, I would say, between that 40 to a 100 mark. So Okay.
Speaker 2:Great.
Speaker 1:Perfect. That's great. That's good. That that that helps me a lot, actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because that's usually the stage what you just said that range and I know it's wide but in fact, it's not. It's. That's usually the stage at which most companies think about hiring their first CRO, right? Because this is where the operational complexity becomes such that it necessitates a bit more like you already used the word a couple times, strategic thinking about the business as opposed to more just a hammer and a nail, which is get customers, bring them on board. And it can take companies different levels of time.
Speaker 1:Some companies do this really quickly. I mean, it's happening now because companies grow faster now than they used to for many reasons. But you could see a company becoming a 40 or $50,000,000 company in, like, two years now. It's kinda crazy.
Speaker 2:It is crazy.
Speaker 1:The economics have changed quite a bit. Right? And it doesn't mean as right? I mean, when you're offering new employees a billion dollars to start at Meta, you know, like the world is different. But still, the complexity doesn't change.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean, a company that is at $50.60, 7,100,000,000 in revenues is still a complicated business in a lot of respects.
Speaker 2:Very much.
Speaker 1:Because you have a marketing organization now, you know, you've got a lot of customers, you have a whole slew of different complexities that make the company harder to run. And one of the things that the CRO role is intended to do from my perspective is bring some order to all that. Right? And the the switchover is hard for people like yourself who come from a sales function and your your expertise is in sales and building sales teams and growth. It's not uncommon for a company to choose somebody of that type to run a business.
Speaker 1:But the challenge is now, you said it yourself, right? You're you're always gonna be charged measured by a number. And that's not frankly, not always the case. I mean, a lot of CROs are in fact the whole business is being charged with the number. I mean, you have to grow and all the things that come with that, but there's different ways the company grows.
Speaker 1:It's not necessarily always getting new customers. It's also how do you make sure the customers stick around longer or that they're profitable or that the it's the right customer, that the customer buys the products that you sell and has the problems that you want and has an interest in continued use of your offerings so that you can grow them and develop them into new new opportunities. And, you know, sales organizations typically don't think that way. They just want to get a new customer, right? They want to get a new customer in the door.
Speaker 1:There's a certain ticket size mainly because they're being charged a quota and they want that quota to be reached. And those are very flat metrics that they're effective to get people to get new customers. But if you look at the larger business, I wanna have that kind of more sustainable business growth, which is, alright, fine. It takes us a lot of energy to get new customers. So why don't we see if we can take our existing customers, keep them around longer, and make them buy more or, you know, have more growth or expansion where the opportunity lies for for that as much, I wouldn't say easier, but it's obviously a lot simpler to sell to a customer that you're already helping than one that never heard of you So I'm kinda curious what your think thoughts are on that as the way you look at the business.
Speaker 1:Hey, everyone. Wanna thank you again for listening. Get great comments across LinkedIn and other channels about the show, and it's really gratifying to see that we're having an impact on you. Another thing I wanted to let everybody know is that we also produce events. About two and a half years ago, we started the CRO roundtables predicated on the idea that well, two premises.
Speaker 1:One is CROs are looking for other CROs to talk to, which is really true. It's a very lonely job. How do we get a bunch of CROs in a room where they're not being, let's say, disintermediated by panel discussions and sponsorship events and demos and stuff, and really give them a chance to talk to each other. So we created a roundtable event that essentially that it's a three and a half, four hour discussion between between twenty and thirty chief revenue officers. And these are amazing events.
Speaker 1:The format took off people love them. And I get requests all the time as to when when is your next CRO event. So to that end, I want to just let you all know that we have a roundup of them coming over the next number of months over the remainder of the year. So the next one is in Boston on August 20. Following that, have two events in September in San Francisco, one on September 16, which is a dinner, and then we have another roundtable in San Francisco on the seventeenth.
Speaker 1:And then we're gonna have one in New York in October, probably mid to late October. And then I have one in November in Chicago, November 18. So if anyone is interested in attending any of these events, if you're a chief revenue officer working for a company over 150 to 200 people in your in your organization, just send me a DM on LinkedIn and ask me about which event, and I'll provide you with either the information or the links. But again, it's August 20 in Boston, two in September on September, New York in October, late October, and then again in November in Chicago. So sign up for the CRO roundtables.
Speaker 1:They're amazing of events, I hope to see you there.
Speaker 2:Spot on with everything you said. So I do agree with a lot of those points. I I I think from what I've seen is sometimes the modern day CRO role or term can be interchangeable sometimes with like a chief sales officer or a I think sometimes that companies of a certain size, when you're focused on sales, yes, that comes with a number, right? When you're chief revenue officer, it comes with a lot more. Right?
Speaker 2:And a lot more thinking about the organization and the business as a whole. So, you know, I think most importantly, it is about and also here at Emerge, like, we've grown very organically through the years and through referrals and through replicating good business, which that's any salesperson, that's the easiest way to continue revenue. And the easiest place to start when you're, I think, hunting, prospecting is with your current customers. Like, what did we do right? How can we replicate that?
Speaker 2:But also looking at like, okay, well, not just that customer, what was their profile? Right? Like, what made that engagement or that delivery work so well? How do we replicate that? How do we go after those different, not just organizations, but also I think personas, right, within the company.
Speaker 2:Like who are we targeting? And that's been a big thing that, I think you have to define that target, ICP before you can actually try to replicate and grow a business. You also have to understand what are we really going after, where are we going to be successful in the market. That is ever changing constantly, and we do change a lot as well, especially with AI coming into play and all of these different things and the technology world, think it's People are always trying to be relevant, right? So one thing that we've been doing is you know, thinking about, like, thought leadership paper.
Speaker 2:Like, how do we differentiate? So I think that
Speaker 1:I'm just curious if you don't mind me asking that question. And, yeah, I think for to help contextualize that question, it might be helpful for the listeners to know a bit more about emergent and who your customers are and what problem you solve and the business that you services that you provide so they can get a better sense of the challenges that you're facing because it's different if you're a SaaS business or if you're a service business or if you're a hardware business, etcetera. It is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's about, mean, at a high level. So we are a global digital services firm, which really means like we are a global tech consulting firm that specializes in, I would say, three areas, consulting, engineering, and education. So those are really the three kind of pillars of our business. We do focus on making companies more product centric. So everything that we have is that's our differentiator, I would say.
Speaker 2:It's it's more about how do you think about things from a more product centric lens. And how do you really connect those the business people with the IT problems? How do you bring something conception, an idea, whether it's taking a product to market or even taking something a product can be internal as well, like a new system internally. So how do you take that from conception to actually delivering it in the hands of your customers? So that's really where we specialize in.
Speaker 2:That's probably the best way to describe it. And I think the differentiator is also we are very big about making sure our customers understand the importance of how to do what we're doing when we leave. Right? Like, we're not which is kind of a salesperson's you wanna be there forever and selling into the account, but we are set up to to go in, make an impact, and then leave. Right?
Speaker 2:We're kind of teaching them how to fish, if you will. We're making them do it on their own. So
Speaker 1:Got it. Yep. Yep. So your your customer, in terms of their need cycle, is it that they've they've come up with an idea and now they need a company to help them take that idea into reality? Or is it they don't have any sort of product ideas and they recognize that they want more of a recurring revenue model?
Speaker 1:And then do you help them figure out how to do that? Or is it both?
Speaker 2:It's both. Right? So it could be a new idea, but it also could be looking at the way that they're currently operating. Right? Like very large organizations, the way that they're doing their current work is is not as efficient as possible.
Speaker 2:And so they need somebody to come in and kind of consult and do, I would say, learning by example or do some education. We also have a a platform, online that helps, you know, educate, but we do a lot of things in person as well. So Mhmm. Come in and kind of lead by example. So some of it's like coming in and auditing, and we talk a lot about landing and expanding accounts.
Speaker 2:So customers' needs are very different. They could need help developing a product, so that's where engineering could come in. But a lot of it is going to be around that kind of product centric lens. Like something that we're doing is not working as efficiently as it should, or we need buy in from our leadership, or we're not getting to market fast enough, or what we're doing is not working. We need to be faster.
Speaker 2:We need to be more efficient. So that's where we also see a lot of customer needs.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. Okay. So I'm curious to know, like, when you got this role, what was the circumstances? Was it that they recognized that they needed one and they came to you and said, we want you to do this? Or was it more collaborative and you said, you need this, I'd like to do it?
Speaker 1:Like, how did that happen?
Speaker 2:So you mean the CRO role? Yeah. I think it was a it was actually a natural, I think, evolution in how things played out. We were going through some changes in how we were going to from our CEO. Right?
Speaker 2:And our CEO is very transparent in how he leads the organization. So he'll talk about, you know, future estate. So I it was always on the map that there could be a CRO, you know, potentially. That wasn't necessarily in my mind, like, hey, I need that role, I want that role. I think it was more of a mutual understanding of I was bringing a lot of ideas and leading by example and really stepping up to try to change things in the sales organization for the better.
Speaker 2:And that was recognized. And then I think the timing was right as far as them wanting to make it a more strategic move and advancing our growth. We it it actually happened pretty quickly and organically, the way that we talked about me moving into this role. But, yeah, it it worked out. So I'd say it was it happened very naturally.
Speaker 1:I understand. So what were some of those things you did proactively, and and why'd you do them?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I, first and foremost, I think when I was hired on, a big thing was, you know, I was a player coach. Right? So it wasn't just leading. It wasn't just managing.
Speaker 2:It was also selling.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So proving that I, you know, could actually do, you know, the job. I could actually be in the trenches, sell, prospect, you know, do all of those things which challenged me. It's been a while, you know, since you're, you know, cold calling and and doing some things, and then also guiding the team on how to think about deals differently than we had thought about it before here at Immersion. So I think bringing a a different perspective to thinking about how we approach clients, how we approach deals, how we approach the way that we service our customers, not just on like this immediate delivery, but like how do we grow this account? How do we think about it from an overall account strategy and not just this is a problem we need to solve right now, but hey, how do we grow this account?
Speaker 2:How do we do stakeholder mapping? How do we you know, make ourselves sticky within the account beyond just this immediate need? So I think that's one thing that stood out. And then also You
Speaker 1:don't mind. I'm sorry to interrupt. Just wanna be get into this a little bit more. Yeah. To be specific, like, what are some of the things that you specifically saw and changed, you know, because I I get the general idea but I'm I'm very interested in knowing like, okay, I I I saw this X thing and it needs to change because of this reason.
Speaker 1:These are the things that are are really interesting to hear like some problems you saw and why they were problems and what it was that needed to be done to fix them and then what the solution was and how it resolved it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, I think the the first thing was how we were going about our prospecting, because a lot of it was about growth, right? So when I came in, it wasn't necessarily a problem. We had some very solid accounts that were being managed by other people. So it was about building a team and it was all about driving new business.
Speaker 2:Right? And the way that we are going about it at the time was more kind of lead driven. It was a little bit more sporadic. It wasn't as focused and intent driven, right? So when I came in, I said, let's instead of doing what we've been doing, let's do some target account list.
Speaker 2:Like, let's be very systematic and strategic about who we go after. And this applied to The US at the time, right? Which is a huge region, we didn't have a huge team, so we can't be on-site all the time. So, hey, let's look at it from a target account list. Let's put that together.
Speaker 2:Let's focus on that. And let's also try to think about like intent data, like what are those customers that may be wanting our service or maybe in the market instead of just being reactive. So I think being more proactive. So bringing in, so the first thing, making sure that we had updated target lists, we had account reports that we were doing regularly, bringing in the right tools to be able to prospect smarter. So that was, I think, one of the first things we did.
Speaker 2:Also, getting a little bit tighter on our overall qualification process, right? So we had a great model that's been put in place, and it's been around for a long time around the engagement model, how we engage with customers. But what I saw was lacking was really the front end of that, from when we are given a lead from where is it marketing? Is it us going to reach out to a customer? How long does it take until that person gets into the system?
Speaker 2:We've had conversations, we've done pre sales and then it's entered as an opportunity. So really looking at that front end of the funnel and how do we drive more of that into creating opportunities or how do we qualify it out faster.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So that was one thing that we looked at doing and working very closely with our marketing leads too. We have, you know, somebody that was head of lead gen and looking at, hey, how could we be more efficient with that process? So I think that was a big help And as then developing an overall strategy. We had a company strategy. We'd had, I think, a sales and a marketing strategy at a high level, but working and at the time with a peer in Europe, okay, what what is our sales strategy?
Speaker 2:Like, I felt like that was lacking a bit. Like, what is our North Star for And how do we define that? And what do we need from sales like getting feedback from sales, like what do we need to be better? What do we need from the business? And then bringing that back to the business.
Speaker 2:Maybe it was because I was new and I wasn't afraid to, you know, go to people and say, hey. Let's let's try something different. Let's talk about what how we've been doing things, and then maybe how we could look at doing things differently.
Speaker 1:Thanks again for listening to the CRO spotlight podcast. We're excited about all the great guests we have. And more importantly, we're excited mostly about you for being avid listeners and supporting the work that we do here. Feel free, please, to share the CRO spotlight podcast with any of your colleagues. We just think there's a great wealth of information here, and I wanna get the word out to as many people as possible, and your your support of the show is really appreciated.
Speaker 1:I wanted to share information about a program that we offer called the CRO Masters Council. The CRO Masters Council is a bimonthly group of six season Chief Revenue Officers who are looking for a Chief Revenue Officer Board of Directors, so to speak, that they could share what's going on with them, collaborate with ideas, get some feedback on what's going on in their current role. And these are great conversations. I facilitate them. The CRO Masters Councils, again, they're twice a month, and they last for at least six months to a year.
Speaker 1:So if you're interested in having your own CRO suite, your own Board of Directors of Chief Revenue Officers, it's a private, confidential conversation that we have. It's infinitely useful. Imagine having a room full of other Chief Revenue Officers you can talk to say, hey, I'm working on this, or have you guys figured that out? Or I'm having this issue right now with my business or my my results. These are just invaluable conversations with chief revenue officers.
Speaker 1:Chief revenue officers have a very, very unique role. It's a very lonely job, and only other CROs understand what you're going through. So that's why we created this program. So if you're interested in being a member of the next CRO Masters Council, which we have a number of them being put together right now, just go to my LinkedIn and, DM me, masters or masters council, and I'll follow-up with you and set up a call or send you some more information about it. Looking forward to seeing you there, and thank you.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. Great. And how many salespeople do you have in your company right now?
Speaker 2:We have about, I believe, about 10 dedicated salespeople, but we have a lot of our, I would say, some of our SMEs or our delivery folks that have accounts that they've been involved with for a very long time, we'll still kind of manage that from a relationship standpoint. So we're involved, but I would say not as much from a prospecting level. But that is also something that we're working towards and getting sales more involved in that and how we can spread deeper into the account.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Are you still selling? Do still carry a book business or no longer?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I do, actually, currently. Think that's one thing that we talked about. And I think being a leader, like, to be fair also to the company and the people that I'm leading, I I would rather spend my time helping them be successful than me just say, hey, look at me. I you know, I've got, you know, x amount million in in sales, but I haven't helped you yet.
Speaker 2:Right. So it's balancing act.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Totally. You know, this is an interesting topic because, you know, I have opinion about this.
Speaker 2:You
Speaker 1:know, I agree with you that, I guess, initially, you know, when you come into an organization, particularly in a sales leadership role, it makes sense for you to dig in the weeds a little bit and, you know, sell because it's less about you making money. It's more about just I want to learn how to do it and see what it's like with customers from beginning to end because it'll just give me more information about the process and I'll be able to speak for the lot more experience from doing that than just making up stuff. But it it is a dangerous thing because, you know, I've seen this a lot. So, you know, a lot of my clients, as you can appreciate, they went into the CRO role from sales because it's usually where people are picked from. That's changing quite a bit, frankly, but that's another conversation.
Speaker 1:But if you come from sales and that's your strength and you closed a lot of deals and because you closed deals, you become attractive to certain people whom obviously like people that do that. There's there's skill sets that go with it that transpose themselves across other parts of the business. So that makes sense. However, it's it can be myopic, because, know, if you're if you're always selling, you're focused very much on acquisition as your endgame. And as I already shared before, that's not the endgame.
Speaker 1:The endgame really is more growth and expansion and profitability and other aspects of the business that, you know, sales is a component of, you know? And and I and I think a CRO, the trapping of a CRO is being stuck in the sales modality all the time and not being able to see outside of it mainly because two things happen I see. One, the CRO sort of flounders a little bit because the role is undefined, and I don't really know what we're doing or sort of figuring it out. And so insecurity sets in. So I like, well, I'll just I'll just sell then because I'm really good at it.
Speaker 1:I'll always be congratulated for bringing in money and it'll it'll sort of like help me to kind of, you know, maintain some degree of credibility within the organization. But it it wears thin after a while because you're you need to do things outside of that. And if you don't have clarity about that, the company doesn't have clarity about that, then, you know, the default is, well, I don't know. You know, you figure it out. You know, there's this sort of weird thing that happens with CROs which is the I don't know.
Speaker 1:You tell me. Yeah. You tell, you do it. You figure it out. Oh, he'll figure it out or she'll figure it out and you know, there's a danger there.
Speaker 1:So, this is where I was asking before is when you made the shift and you clearly made some very, you know, organic and wise, you know, kind of investigations and some changes to things which led them to think, wow, you know, Jamie's really smart. We should probably have her do this stuff. If you were if I were to ask your boss today Mhmm. Define role the role of CRO, what would your boss say?
Speaker 2:He would say, CRO is responsible for, I would say, everything customer facing, like to be simple. So everything, whether that's go to market, how we price deals, obviously we involve our commercial team, but how we price deals, what our profit margin is, what our revenue is. And also, a big thing for us is how we work with marketing. We have a very established marketing team. We've gone through some changes, but I would say that's that also is encompassing and and Sure.
Speaker 2:Customer facing. It's very critical. It is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's the first thing that most customers see or should be. You know? Yes. An issue with with b to b these days is it's not, but it's it's usually some SDR is the first thing they see, which is kinda silly.
Speaker 1:But Yeah. It's a different conversation again. I'm curious. Do have an SDR organization or no? Do you use those those peep those type of things?
Speaker 2:We so we have not. We have tried some things in the past, I believe. And we at one point had outsourced. We do not have, I would say, an organization. We have what we call one individual who is our BDR and we're kind of developing the role around him.
Speaker 2:So he is supporting us globally. It's something that, again, we one thing that I was really big about is I don't wanna just build an SDR organization. I don't think we're at the point where we need that. We need to figure out kind of what's how we connect with marketing and sales. Like, what are we trying to solve for is the biggest issue.
Speaker 2:Right? Yep. Like, why bring in a a a team if we don't know what we're solving for? And so we are looking into that function, but right now, it's one individual who I I don't even think the role of SDR encompasses everything that that individual does. They wear multiple hats.
Speaker 2:Yep. So it's and also fills in for our client partners who are salespeople sometimes, and it's getting exposure to that role. So
Speaker 1:Yep. Yep. So we got we I I agree with, by the way, the definition that you shared. I think you succinctly said it as good as you could, which is it's all customer facing things, and I think that's that's true. You know, it's if if I were to be which I do, when I am consulting with my clients about this, I tell them that you should take a look at the way in which your customer interacts with your company.
Speaker 1:Yeah. From the first moment they hear about you in any way, shape, or form to the moment that they advocate you for somebody else. Right? That that's the whole entire thing. So, how does your organization touch that person from that entire life cycle, right?
Speaker 1:So, if I'm in the marketplace and I I represent the customer that you're targeting and it should be my view, less demographic and site less demographic and firmographic but more painographic. It should be.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Do they have that word? Painographic.
Speaker 1:Do they have the pain? Yes. So, they experiencing the pain that it is that your company solves and are they seeking a solution to that pain right now? And then, that's the first thing and then, you know, if that's the case, then, if if we've clearly identified or defined our solution, it should be a coin. It should be that on one side of the coin is the pain and the other side of the coin is our solution.
Speaker 1:It should be that simple. It should be like very easy to be able to see that they're related to each other. That's one. And the second thing is, now that we know that that that's happening, then there's other economic factors, which is, you know, what's the price point of what we're solving and is the company at the size that we need them to be in order to be a customer? And do they have enough sort of let's say long term potential to be with us where we could either continue to help them or expand the way we help them.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And so, you know, if you if you look at it that way then, you've got an entire chain of people involved in that. First, you have a marketing organization that's going to create a value proposition in the marketplace, whether it be through thought leadership and other sorts of things, differentiation and messaging, that signals, we solve this problem, we solve it uniquely, and we do it well. And we have some unique solution or some unique value or some unique way that we do it, and it's different, and this is why it's different, and this is why it matters to people. Maybe some credibility around people who you sold it to, who have some testimonials. That should, that signal should reach your customer, your paying customer at some point and say, okay, I think Emergent is probably someone whom I should consider talking to about this and then marketing now has done their job.
Speaker 1:So, when sales speaks to them, there's a meaningful conversation that you can have with that person and I think that with a breakdown in my view is marketing if if marketing is being relegated to being like a sales enablement organization. Give me decks. Give me collateral. Which is, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying that's just a part of it.
Speaker 1:Right? And so Exactly. When you when you think about marketing in that respect, how are you putting that to work in your organization right now? What are your thoughts on on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I I view market I view marketing as sales enablement, but it's bigger than that. It's also it's brand awareness. It's market awareness. It's all of the things that our salespeople are not good at, to be honest.
Speaker 2:Right? Mhmm. Like the the PR aspect, you know, all of the different, like, media channels and the outreach and all the things that we need to be doing to get our name out there and ultimately drive inbound leads. Like for me, that's, I think, a salesperson's point of view, we'd like to see like the inbound kind of leads or at least some sort of something that we can hook on, right, to reach out, right, whether it be a webinar or a thought paper, that we can leverage as an asset in reaching out to customers. I don't think it's as much as just pure messaging.
Speaker 2:I think that that's not doing them service. Like, they're very involved with helping with messaging and positioning. Also, we have a brand team that helps with like decks and things like they're a part of the marketing function, that's super important. But marketing to me is much bigger than that. I think that's been one thing in my career that I've learned is, like, sales and marketing need to be absolutely aligned.
Speaker 2:Because if marketing doesn't know what sales is doing
Speaker 1:And vice versa.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Then it's not gonna work. You know, then we're working in silos.
Speaker 1:The case. It usually is the case. The the silo between those two organizations, and I'd say, even the customer success organizations or let's call it the account management organizations tend to be too. And I've worked in so many companies where literally the sales organization and the customer success organizations fight with each other. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much again for listening to the CRO spotlight podcast. This podcast is an important plank in the CRO collective communication strategy, and we're really thrilled to have such great guests on here. So, listening and sharing the podcast with other people is really vital because we wanna get as many people listening to this great stuff as possible. Couple things to note. If you're a aspiring CRO or a recently hired CRO or even a old salty CRO and you're looking to either become a chief revenue officer or improve your chops and gain some more insights and improve your competencies as a chief revenue officer, We offer the CRO accelerator course.
Speaker 1:It's five years now. It's the first CRO focused course that was out there. It's a fifteen week course that is populated by aspiring chief revenue officers and CROs. We're pretty selective in terms of who can be a member of the CRO accelerator course. It's people whom are probably, like, more, like, ready to be a CRO right now.
Speaker 1:They have number of years under their belt as a revenue leader, whether it be a sales leader or a marketing leader or even rev ops leader. And they either want to move into the c suite or their CROs that want to just make sure that they win in the role. So if you are interested in being a member of the next cohort, please just write me a note on LinkedIn. Just DM me CRO accelerator, and we'll set up a time to talk. And then I can send you more information to give you a brochure of the course.
Speaker 1:So again, CRO accelerator course, fifteen week program for aspiring and newly hired CROs. Take advantage of it. It's been great, and you'll see some more information about it on the website. Thanks. You know, it's weird.
Speaker 1:It's like a you think about the way it was set up. I think it's it's changing and evolving, but, you know, this is a real weird way it was set up. So, you know, sales organization closes a deal. They work very hard in getting a deal closed. Now, there could be a number of different things.
Speaker 1:I think some of this stuff is a bit nuanced. If I'm selling a SaaS product, you know, the relationship that I have with the customer is not going to be that integrated as it would be if I'm selling a service product. But if I'm a consulting organization, the sales organization usually is very involved in delivery because there's a crossover there, you know?
Speaker 2:Does depend on the different type of organization, but you're right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I find that you're correct. This is certainly not a black and white thing, but I find that I've worked for, in my career, more service organizations like yours than I have SaaS organizations for the reason that I just it's just it's it doesn't have to do with me. Just a just a personal preference. I have to work with that type of business.
Speaker 1:I like that better. I like solving people's problems and stuff like that. You know, software, well, I love it, and I'm fascinated by it. It's very just, you know, get me the get me the contract.
Speaker 2:It's more transactional.
Speaker 1:Card and get and transactional. And it's fine. Not necessarily. I mean, some some some software is very complicated. And, know, if you're selling like a CRM system or, you know, enterprise software, it's very, very complicated to sell that to somebody because it's a it has big implications.
Speaker 1:But most SaaS is not that bad, not way. In fact, most SaaS, someone in the company can just log in and buy the product on their own and start using it and, you know, not even share it with the rest of the organization yet. So I say these things mainly because if I close a deal and then now, there's an account management team that manages that account. That account management organizations responsibilities and incentives are predicated around the ways in which that relationship can be manifest in ways that show that that organization is valuable. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to protect that relationship.
Speaker 1:I'm not going want anybody else to talk to that person except us, right? Because now, you're stepping in on my turf. It might threaten my KPIs. That's a bad setup. That setup is not built for the organization to succeed.
Speaker 1:That's big for the people to fight with each other. Yep. And if they're integrated, then, you know, no one care who's talking to the person because we're all on the same team, right? And that needs to be created not just through a culture, you know, which is like everyone gets along. Is that sort of like a little bit, you know, little polyamorous?
Speaker 2:Never like that way.
Speaker 1:No, it isn't. You're right. It has to be built on incentives and the way that everyone is designed to kind of benefit from those relationships and that they're mutual and that they require each other's support to do so. And those are processes and those are incentives and those are comp plans. So I'm curious, how are you thinking about these things now in the way that you're building your organization?
Speaker 1:Now that you're ostensibly in a position to make that sort of alignment? What's the way that you're thinking through those things?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's a a really great question. And I I agree with a lot of things that you said because I I've seen this at different organizations, right, that I've worked for and how it can be detrimental to actually what you're trying to do and deliver to the customer. At the end of the day, we are trying to be the best we can be for the customer. They are the ones that are trying to get to fighting internally and worrying about the handoff and all of those things can be difficult.
Speaker 2:And that is something you know, our organization right now, we are like our salespeople where it's not your traditional, like business development and then you hand it off to account management or customer success, like it is you wear that hat, like you are prospecting. You are also dealing with the client along with like delivery teams. We have a very robust, I would say, delivery and client engagement function, which has helped us be able to wear multiple hats, but there is not a handover. But you get you will get to a point where that does become as you grow, you can only manage a certain amount of accounts while still prospecting.
Speaker 1:Exactly. So there needs to be some sort of process for those people to be able to stay on purpose or maybe change the compensation structure so that when they do stay on the account that there's incentive for them to do so, and it benefits customer for that to happen. I know. So, this has happened to me, right? So, I sold like you.
Speaker 1:I I this is very similar. I sold very complicated technology consulting for a big part of my career and we would go to a company and we had some very, you know, very complex things. We're trying to sell to our clients that had impact across their whole organizations, you know, changing their entire technology infrastructure to change. And they knew they needed to, because the world was changing. I happen to be lucky enough to be in business when the internet was invented and mobile phone was invented and it was really cool, you know, to be involved in these massive shifts that organizations had no choice but with with.
Speaker 2:But to
Speaker 1:move with and they didn't know how. And so it was very disruptive and big things and you know, when you're and you know this because you do it. When you're selling this sort of thing, you have to not just be a salesperson. You have to be sort of like, in a way, have to be sort of the product. You have to be the person that they wanna hire because they wanna have confidence enough in you that you can talk about this confidently that they'll wanna hire you.
Speaker 1:And they typically want to keep you around. They're like, are you going to be on this account? Are you going to stay on this account? Are we never going to see you again? Right.
Speaker 1:And we had to shift our model so that I could stay on the account. But then it was like, well, then I'm not out selling, and I need to do that for the company. So, there were different metrics that I had which were aside from success metrics and make sure the client engagement was complete and that the client was satisfied which I got incentivized for. It was also for then, how could I then help explore ways in which that client could buy more things from us or expand the way that we serve them? And I invariably was pretty good at doing that.
Speaker 1:But now all of a sudden, I had three clients I'm working on. I'm not selling new business at all anymore. Mhmm. Right? So it's either like find more people like that or pull me out of the client.
Speaker 1:Right? And this is a very sticky problem. And it's not one that's easily solved. Sometimes you have to basically tell the client that, you know, look, I will be with you for this period of time.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And you will have a customer success manager whom I'll introduce into the picture early enough that you establish a relationship with this so that when I leave, you feel like you're in good hands. I'm not just like walking out the door and bringing somebody new in. You there has to be, like, you're carrying the baton together for, a longer period of time while you're running the race together so that there's a little bit more of a smoother transition. I think companies can really clumsy with that. You know?
Speaker 1:I agree. So so I'm just curious, like, how you're managing those sort of things.
Speaker 2:I I think that that's probably one of the biggest I would say one of the biggest issues when companies are at that phase of, like, really growing and trying to take things to the next level, that can be where you fall short, right? So one thing, and this is not just something I've done, but one thing that we have always been big about is surrounding the customer. So sometimes that can be like, from a a sales minded individual, it's like, hey. Well, sales, you you wanna be involved in an account. But we are very good about bringing in that can create its own issues.
Speaker 2:Right? Like resource problems. Yes. But we are very good about surrounding the customer early on, so they feel like it's a team. And one thing that we're doing now, is kind of, I don't wanna call stakeholder mapping, but like that power mapping kind of.
Speaker 2:It's like, hey, we're working on a deal. You're the one that's gonna talk to them about that. We may all be on a call, but like your responsibility is we really need to talk to them about the technical specs. This might be one of the SMEs. Your responsibility is to work with them from a commercial perspective.
Speaker 2:That will be our client partners. And then maybe we introduce one of our head of product or something just so that they know that they have a bigger team behind them than what they're actually seeing on a day to day basis. That's how we manage it right right now. And I do think that's a a good way to do that. But again, you you as you grow, you it becomes a resource, you know, issue.
Speaker 2:And you are and then metrics.
Speaker 1:Find people that know how to sell that way. Yeah. And I think those people are at a premium now more than ever. I think that the
Speaker 2:There's it's a rare find.
Speaker 1:It is. And and the world, the reason is this is because, you know, and again, I'm I'm an old fogey, you know? So, when I grew up, you know, we didn't have any choice. We had to do everything. You know, I didn't have this big, all this technology and people and stuff.
Speaker 1:It was just, that's what I did. I got on the phone. I prospect and I got business. I closed.
Speaker 2:You did it all.
Speaker 1:And it was fine. I mean, that's how I'm used to doing things. In fact, I wouldn't want anybody doing that stuff for me to be straight with you. But, you know, I talked to salespeople now who are in their thirties, and they literally say that's that's not what that's not my job. I don't do that.
Speaker 1:And and it they're not saying it because they're arrogant. They're not saying it because they're. That's how they've been trained. That's that it's not their job. It's like me saying to them, you know, go make the coffee or something.
Speaker 1:They're like, I don't do that, you know?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And and so, they've been kind of conditioned to feel like there's a component of the job that they run that is, in my view, it's it's it's important but you know, if you're a halfway decent salesperson and a decent SDR organization brings me a warm lead, it's easier for me to convert that than to try and convince somebody that that they need to, you know, it's not the same thing. It's a different skill set. And and so, you know, the people that can do that, first of all, they tend to be older. Because that's what they did.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Right? And, you know, they don't want to hire old people anymore. They want to hire younger people. And so there's that, which I think is crazy, but that's the way it is. And, you know, there's also other weird thing I'm seeing too, is that if you're older, and you have those more, let's say, full cycle sales skills, while you may be usually really valuable to the organization in that respect, you may also not have as much technical chops as younger people do.
Speaker 1:I see younger people really amazingly adept at these new technologies. They use them all the time. And you need those people in your organization.
Speaker 2:We do.
Speaker 1:So it's a very some how do you how are you dealing with that component of your business right now? Now that you've got firstly, because you're building digital products. I mean, I don't I'm asking kind of a bit of a dense question here because there's a lot of things packed into it. But are you building AI products for your company or clients now? Or are you like, how are you managing the AI boom both internally and with the way in which you're developing products for your clients?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are. That's actually a very relevant topic. I mean, I think for anybody that's, like evolving, being relevant in the digital space. And one thing that I think is important is we are still honing in on what is that go to market strategy, right? Because we don't wanna be every other company that's like, hey, we do AI, we do AI.
Speaker 2:A lot of times corporations, they know they need it, but they don't know what exactly they need. So yes, we do have a great AI capability. We do build products. We are leveraging tools, actually doing it in house and for customers. But I think what we'll end up doing in the AI space is going to be beyond just the building factor of that.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be more around the governance and the change management piece.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think you I think with AI, you have to you have to understand what you're good at and what the potential is that you can offer while still staying in your lane and being true to who you are as a company without trying to expand and say, hey. We're AI. We do this, but it's not something you're an expert at.
Speaker 1:So I Yeah. It's a it's a weird one, isn't that? Because I'm seeing, you know you know, I see I see it from both sides. I think you're correct. Obviously, you can't misrepresent yourselves.
Speaker 1:But
Speaker 2:But you can't be late to the game either.
Speaker 1:Can't be late either. You you sort of you have to, you know, I've seen companies recognize and I see this a lot that they might not even be considered as a potential vendor if they don't have AI in their skill set because they're just like, you know, it's it's a weird situation when in fact, I think, now, I'm I'm talking, I don't know how many people a week. Now, I see very few people who really know how to make this stuff work as effectively as people claim. Yeah. You know, and there are a lot.
Speaker 1:There are people who are brilliant at these things and like it's mind blowing and I'm glad to be associated with them but you gotta be very cautious when you see company has the word AI and a little cute little star next to the thing and their logo. You know, it's like, what does that mean? You know, it's like pixie dust on it. Exactly. What is the way in which this particular technology is being leveraged and is it is it meaningful enough that if you took it out, the product wouldn't be as good?
Speaker 1:And you know, would you notice it if it wasn't there anymore? Was it added in there because you just sort of have to and I think in your your your I would say, I know you didn't ask me but in your case, you have a unique opportunity in that you're consulting. So, the there's a there's a pain point in the marketplace right now. If I'm building a digital product, it's likely that I'm going to want it to have some AI component roles. It's not going be a viable product.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So, your your your company's ability to be able to articulate and consult on how those things can be done is gonna be a big, you know
Speaker 2:Well, also build it too. Right? But also not be like, you know, we're not we're not trying to go to market as an AI company. I think that's the difference sometimes. Like, you know, like you said, the star, the pixie dust, right?
Speaker 2:We're gonna have true.
Speaker 1:I I see a lot of this nonsense, but I I see a lot of brilliance. I mean, I'm I'm I'm really seeing some things right now that I
Speaker 2:Which you have. I mean, you have to be, and this is something we actually started thinking about over a year ago. So it's good that we were starting to build that practice. We do have some pretty cool case studies. They're not as like what they're kind of unique to the customer on what we've built for them.
Speaker 2:So that's the cool stuff that we do. But also, we're competing in a world where everyone is saying that they do AI. Right? There's also, you know, every big consulting firm out there says that they do AI. So I think from us, when I think about it from a go to market perspective too, yes, we have these capabilities, but we have to be really good about how we differentiate and make sure that we're really clear on what we're good at and what we can really help you with.
Speaker 2:Because if we don't do that, we're we're not gonna help the customer. We're just gonna be another, you know, name on the RFP.
Speaker 1:It has to be something valuable and unique and measurable and evident to the customer that that particular feature is one that makes a difference.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:You know?
Speaker 2:And that's So I wanna
Speaker 1:I wanna we we are running out of time here. I wanna make sure we get to a couple questions before we leave that are important. So, okay. We got a lot of people listen to this that are either just getting hired as CROs or they're thinking about being a CRO. What are some the top three things you'd say to a person whom is just starting a new chief officer role and some things they should be thinking about or some advice you can give them that would be helpful for them to get get successful as they start?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that I mean, that's a great question. I think I still think about that sometimes too, right? How can I always be better? I think the biggest thing for me is to surround yourself by people that make you better, right? So don't be afraid to ask questions.
Speaker 2:Don't be like, you don't have to just because you're a CRO doesn't mean that you know everything about everything, right? Like you are reliant on your team, on your colleagues, on understanding how they work, how they operate, and ultimately, how you guys are gonna work better together. So I think having that open, dialogue, that open mindset, and really kind of challenging yourself to think differently, maybe what you thought was gonna work, that may be a great idea, but get feedback from others. Get input from others. And don't be afraid to to say, hey, you know, why are we doing that?
Speaker 2:Not just because that's the way that things have been done, but don't be afraid to challenge. You know, Ask me, ask why. It's okay to ask why. Okay. And it's okay to also say, hey, I don't quite understand, like help me understand so I can be a better leader.
Speaker 2:I think those are things that sometimes, and at least I thought before I was in this role that if you ask those things, it makes you seem like you're not as much of a leader or you're not leading the charge, but I actually think it makes you stronger. I think it makes you lead with, you know, empathy and example. Like, you're trying to be a leader by understanding and having an open a growth mindset. It's very, you know, term that's used all the time, but being open to continually No. It's great.
Speaker 1:I love it. Yeah. No. You're you're it's a 100% right. It's it's like, I think I see new CROs start, and they have this perception that they're supposed to appear a certain way.
Speaker 1:Right. Which, you know, is probably kind of true.
Speaker 2:It is and it's that you do have to in a sense.
Speaker 1:But but there is there is there's more nuance to it than I think people think. I think, you know, there's this sort of idea that like, you know, we've heard this before. It's a old old, you know, trope of, like, there's no such thing as a stupid question. And it probably is ultimately really true. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think that it's it's someone something that at that stage, you you need to really take that to heart because, you know, if you don't understand something, first of all, it doesn't mean you're stupid.
Speaker 2:Yeah. If you wanna understand it in a different way, maybe what's being told to you, you're thinking about it differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Something you don't understand, you may not just think about it the way that that they do.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Have an interesting exercise I do with with this one. Like, this might might be interesting. I've been in a situation before where, you know, I'm around a lot of people whom are in leadership positions, and I can tell there's lot of this sort of posturing going on where everybody wants to sound smart. They use all sorts of words and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:And I I get that and whatever but you know, it can also be sort of a distraction because no one's saying what they really think about anything and I've always been the person who says that I really think all the time which can be a good thing or bad thing but that's who I am. So, you know, at the risk of me sounding like I don't know what I'm talking about and and and maybe let's say activating someone's desire to want to knock me down a peg by calling me out on something because they're more looking for me to to weaken my position than strengthen it, right? Not everyone's as humble as saying, oh, wow. Those are really honest question. Some people might be more like, oh, you're an idiot because they're looking to try to like outrank me.
Speaker 1:It happens, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 1:Yep. Is, you know, is a might be a clever little piece of advice for people because it's it came up just now. If you're in a situation where you're in a leadership meeting, you don't know something, you really should ask because you need to know. The way you can do it could be a little interesting. Instead of saying, I don't know this.
Speaker 1:It could be, you know, it would be helpful for me to understand why it is you made this decision.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:What was the strategy behind this decision? So you're asking two questions at the same time, which is like, what the hell is this? And two, why was Yeah. It And they'll answer the why question, and you'll get both answers. And at second thing you'll get is you'll understand why and many times find out that it was a dumb reason, and you can fix it.
Speaker 1:So, you know, there's a lot of interesting ways you can get underneath things without having to be as direct about things.
Speaker 2:I love that repositioning, and that's how you have to do it. You can't just come out as a leader and say, I I don't understand that. It has to be said in a in a way that's that's that's interesting. Can you tell me more about why we're doing that? Or how like, what is the
Speaker 1:purpose it? What drove this decision? What was the strategy behind this decision? Yeah. Tell me what what how that thinking came about.
Speaker 2:You know? Exactly.
Speaker 1:Walk me through that, right, kind of thing, and then people will. And you'll get a lot more than just lot what it
Speaker 2:more. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway, just a little thought. Any other final thoughts on that question?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think also, leading by example, I think is a big thing, right? It doesn't need to be like, it doesn't mean that you have to be the top salesperson or you have to be but just lead by example has been something that I've always been really big about. So if you want something to change or you want something to be done different, like, take that on yourself and and show that in a way that is, you're not just saying you're doing it, but you're acting on it and you're making changes and you're creating results. So you're really leading by example, by showing how it can be done and what can be done without saying, hey, look at me, this is what I did or this is what I'm gonna implement.
Speaker 2:Just do it, take action and let your actions and your results speak for themselves.
Speaker 1:Ask for forgiveness, not permission.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yes. I can be bad at that sometimes, you know, because I'm always like, you know, I wanna involve but you do have to do that. Yeah. 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Then I think also just mentor, like always seek out mentors. I think that's the the only way that we continually grow outside of the organization too. It's like, I've been lucky to have some people that I've worked with before, you know, even just talking to you. Like, people that you really respect and they challenge you mentally, and they help you think about things in a different way.
Speaker 2:I think always seeking that out is gonna help you be more successful in your role.
Speaker 1:Great. Well, and I I really appreciate you being here. This is a really great conversation. Lots of great things that you shared, and congratulations on your success.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Warren.
Speaker 1:Sure. And I hope that continues to grow and expand and, you know, you own marketing and customer success and the whole Megillah in about six months to a year. You're Yeah. Running
Speaker 2:whole gamut. Yeah. So well, thank you, Warren. I I look forward to keeping in touch, continuing to watch all of the success that you have, and I appreciate being on here. So thank
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Alright.
Speaker 2:Have a great one.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the CRO spotlight podcast. The CRO Collective's mission is to help CRO succeed and help founders and CEOs build CRO ready organizations. You can find out more information about our services at the cr0collective.com. That's the cr0collective.com, and we look forward to having you join us next time.
